Nuances: Our Asian Stories

 

Transcript

LAZOU: Our guest today is Edward Pokropski. Ed is one of the executive producers of the Asian Comedy Fest and is an Emmy-nominated senior writer and producer at NBC Universal. He’s also a comedian touring his storytelling show, "case 84: adopted in the USA". The show touches on how the media shapes our view and misconceptions about adoption. Ed, thank you so much for being on The Nuances Podcast today.

Ed Pokropski: Thank you for having me. I’m really excited to do this. love doing podcasts. I’m really excited to talk with you.

LAZOU: thank you. Now let’s start from the beginning. Tell us where you grew up and what that was like as an Asian American.

Ed Pokropski: Yeah, I mainly grew up in Philadelphia. I’m adopted and I spent some time in california till I was about five years old with my mom and my uh brother, who’s also adopted from a different family, and my dad at the time. And then they got a divorce and then we moved to Philadelphia with my mom me and my brother.

I went to school there. I went to high school. I went to college in Philly.

In the neighborhood that I grew up in, we went to Catholic school, and it was a blue collar white neighborhood that we were in predominantly.

So that’s what I knew my mom, was white and, the neighborhood was white and you know,

I’d like to say when I grew up and I finally could contextualize a lot of things. I felt like just a Philly kid many days.

But certainly the idea of not growing up around a lot of Asian and Asian American culture definitely had an impact on, me, and I had to wrestle with identity for a long time, and especially now into adulthood so. Growing up as an Asian American in Philly in that way certainly shaped a lot of what I address a lot as I got older.

LAZOU: Yeah. . So you’re an Emmy nominated senior writer and producer at a major network. First off, congratulations. I’m sure that a walk the park

Ed Pokropski: Oh, it was, it was, uh, you know,

It’s just happy, you’re just happy to be nominated as they say. No. Um, no, no, No. You know, Yes I am, I’m fortunate in that way to, to be where I’m at right now.

LAZOU: So how do you get into writing and comedy?

Ed Pokropski: I went to school for film and television. I started out as a communications major. I always had an interest in writing and film and television growing up, I was in an AV club type thing in high school. But it’s not anything I thought I could make a career out of, I was very practical and not even having an Asian parent to, to tell me be so,

I just thought like, I should. I don’t know, get a job in business.

I actually almost went to culinary school, was interested in psychology at some point, I wanted to be a judge even at some point. Like a lot of people you think about a lot of possibilities. And my mom didn’t push me in any one direction though she was…

I do tell people, I’m like, people have this idea of a White or an American parent being more open and encouraging. And while she was, in some ways, in other ways, she was a practical parent. She was like if you want to do that, fine, but it’s gonna be really hard and you probably won’t make a lot of money for a long time. Or this is the problem with that job, or this is the problem with that career. So I wouldn’t say she was super, like of course, honey, whatever you want, you’ll be great. She wasn’t like that, but at the same time, she wasn’t exactly like, don’t do it. I would never, you should become whatever. So when I got interested in film, television and writing. and all that stuff when I started taking some electives under the Communications hub major, I really loved it. I liked photography. I liked a lot of the things that I was taking part in under that umbrella. And when I, said, i, think I wanna really make a go of this. My mom was like I really think you’re a strong writer. I really like your writing. And I think that sounds um, if that’s what you want to do, that sounds like a good idea. And I was like, really this is the one you you were okay with.

I was like, great.

So I started out the same way a lot of people do you know, being an assistant on set and, working in a smaller market in Philly for small productions or commercials or local tv you know, I just worked my way up from there. When it comes to comedy specifically, which you know, is. Embedded somewhat in my work at work, is more so outside and for myself. that happened when I got. to New York in 2014. The job that I was working at in Philly, moved up to New York and being in New York, I just sort of always wanted to try comedy or just interested in comedy? I’d love standup, watching standup specials. When you could only really watch them on DVDs or HBO at the time. you know.

When I got to New York, I was like, you know what? This would be so cool to try it and to try it in New York is is huge, is amazing. And so while it’s very competitive, there’s a lot of access to it. So it’s not too bold in that way. So that’s how I got into it. I just, I was here and I had an interest in writing and it seemed like a cool thing to do my own thing, do my own writing, get my own voice out there. And that’s why I got into it.

LAZOU: Now, you were nominated for two Emmys, right? For writing on a kid’s show. Do you wanna tell us about that project

Ed Pokropski: Yeah. It was a live kid show. It was called the Sunnyside Up Show, and I was a producer on it. I actually was a lot of roles on it, writing, producing, performing, supervising producer, director, like there was a lot of hats that I wore for that show. And we were nominated twice for best for outstanding child programming for the Emmys. We were up against Sesame Street and, name you know, name, a better kids show the Sesame Street.

When the nominations came out and our group got nominated. I was like, oh my God. This is amazing. To be in the same category. And it wasn’t even something where I was expecting us to win or hoping to win.

It was more of like, to be name checked in the same space as arguably the founding idea of a kid show and one that still is the gold standard today was amazing. And I know people worked for Sesame and I did at that time, and it was just really, it was just really cool.

So even just going to the Emmy’s in, in LA at the time I was like, you know, it felt so fancy. There was a red carpet, we got great drinks and food. I was like, if this is it, then, then great. You know what I mean? If I never get nominated for an Emmy again then, okay. I can say I did once or twice now. In my bio I always say I got nominated for two Emmys, but one zero and I thinkthat’s okay.

But yeah, just the whole experience was really cool. and again not to be cliche, but it was nice just to get recognized and nominated for the work, you know, we did that year and, and even if we hadn’t been nominated, the work we were doing was really fun and rewarding and it was changing all the time, and being in a live environment was really cool and to be able to put stuff like that out at that level it was a once in a lifetime opportunity and, it was really cool to do.

LAZOU: What was that day like when you heard that you were, What was that moment when you got the news and were you shocked?

Ed Pokropski: It was at work and they, they let us know. and I was like, wow.

At first I was like, are we gonna even get to go or are they just gonna say like, we’re gonna send one person? And, but we got to go and, and we got to go as a group. And it was really cool.

And, And again, like I think the management at that time like understood the significance and the importance that we were there. For the first one, if we had won i was the one that was supposed to go up and give the speech. So I had a couple notes down and things I was supposed to say. I was gonna slip in a thing there just to thank my mom. We didn’t win, but if we had won, I would’ve been the one that had to go up and represent our group and give the speech, which would’ve been cool.

But yeah it really was just like, wow. I hope we get to go and I was more excited just to have a free trip and some free drinks and some hors d’oeuvres and watch and just be there. So that’s, I, again, I hadn’t even considered the thought of winning. It was more of let’s go on a trip. Fun. You know?

That was, that’s what it was, honestly.

Yeah.

LAZOU: Yeah. that was when you were still in Philly?

Ed Pokropski: No, that was in, That was in New York. two years into New York, I think. Yeah.

LAZOU: Congratulations again.

Ed Pokropski: Thank you. Thanks. Yeah.

LAZOU: Is writing for kids something that you wanna do more of or is that like,

Ed Pokropski: I mean, it’s not to say that I would never do it again. I think writing for kids is incredibly challenging. I think what’s interesting is people think it’s not? Or when you tell someone you’ve worked in or work in kids television, there’s a little like, oh, that’s cute. Oh, my nephew watches. Or if they have kids themselves, they might be a little bit more in the know or they’ll say something like, oh my gosh that, that show really annoys me but my kid loves it and I’m like, yeah, that’s the point. It’s for kids television. You’re not supposed to necessarily like love it but people forget these productions are as robust as adult content and in a way, sometimes, more so. Like, animation studios are at the cutting edge. And that’s usually starting, at least they touch kids, content obviously, and then when it comes to things that are for preschoolers or kindergartners or early development as you would call, it’s really important because the message has to be very specific and tailored towards emerging minds. And you can’t assume. They don’t know A is Apple yet they don’t know you know. They’re just getting their feet under them for a lot of these concepts. We always worked with a curriculum consultant. They had a background in child education and child psychology, and so we had all these extra things that we had to keep in mind. And also of course, the idea of keeping things kid and family friendly. All the stuff makes it challenging because you also still have to be entertaining. You still have to be funny, you still have to be visually interesting for these young minds. So you know, when people think, oh, but it’s not, whatever big movie or whatever reality show and, and sometimes I’m kind of like what? Those reality shows are kind of like, we shut our brains off, right? They’re not exactly the most and that’s no hate against reality shows. I think that they are great too. They’re just, it’s just different. So I don’t think there’s any reason to, to assume just because someone’s worked in kids’ television, it’s not as legitimate, but yeah.

LAZOU: yeah, I mean you have a lot more parameters to work with that constrain your work actually.

Ed Pokropski: Oh yeah.

And I do think you know, while in one regard it offers challenges when you have specific things you know, you have to keep it, it does help you stay focused. is what

LAZOU: Yes,

Ed Pokropski: It’s, it’s harder to say like, oh, anything goes. let’s just, you know, I, know that sometimes sounds attractive to certain people in terms of a creative space to say, do whatever you want, or there’s no limits. You know, stuff like that actually doesn’t yield great results. Having some limits is good.

LAZOU: I agree. Yeah, I make music and I feel the same way. So I I do a lot of writing on spec for sync licensing actually for movies and tv. Um, And I find it a lot easier to write a song on a brief when someone says, I need a song that talks about this. That sounds a about these three songs put together and needs to be about this BPM.

I’m like, okay, but if you tell me write anything you want, I’m like well,

Ed Pokropski: Yeah.

LAZOU: so many things

Ed Pokropski: If you tell me anything I want we’ll be spending all this time. Then they’ll be like well, not that uh. Oh, not that you know, you’re like then, then gimme something. Yeah, parameters are good.

LAZOU: yeah. . yeah. There’s a difference between having a diverse group of people in a room and giving them equal opportunity to contribute.

I’m wondering what your experience was like working on a major network show. Did you feel like everybody had equal chances to contribute or did you feel like maybe some writers were maybe interrupted more or didn’t have as much airspace?

Ed Pokropski: No, you know, I would say that our group was fortunate in the sense that we worked in kind of teams and we rotated around a lot for the nature of the show.

So whenever we would pitch things, we would pitch things within like a team and a group to another group of producers. And I was on both sides of those tables. I was the one sometimes, in the past pitching. And then eventually I was on the other side of the table hearing the pitch and approving certain things and giving notes and stuff like that. And in that system it it helped give everyone a pretty good voice because it was specifically for the chunk of time this, this chunk of creative that they had to tackle. And that really helped things. And our group was a diverse group of producers and viewpoints and things that they felt like they would cover while still having a specific, again, brief to say like, okay, this week we’re gonna talk about dinosaurs.

This week we’re gonna talk about food. This week we’re gonna talk about science.

So having that starting point and then having people bring their own viewpoint and experiences whether it came from a diversity mindset, or just from how someone might think in general. It was good that that helped.

Now obviously, in any room that’s like a brainstorming room or an open forum thing, there’s always gonna be people that are just more outspoken than others. And that’s their style.

For the long time I was the type of person who I waited till like maybe the middle to the end, like towards the end I’d hear you know, more of everyone’s things and then give my opinion or my idea. And for a long time people gave me notes saying like that’s great. But it also seemed like I was being too passive or, too quiet. But I think talking to them, and talking to other people, that’s just a different style. And then I had a manager who appreciated that. They said, I like how you don’t jump there right away and see, all this stuff is subjective.

I would say

I would say giving space and all that stuff just comes down to people being aware of different styles, different approaches and just because someone might sound a little bit more quiet or maybe they like to share their ideas in written form or in a more visual breakdown versus a verbal one. I think it’s nice for us to try to think about it that way and not think oh, we need to learn how to be more loud or, or jump in there. Maybe not. Maybe, maybe everyone should somehow shift their own styles. Still be true to themselves, but find the different ways they like to communicate best.

LAZOU: Yeah, that’s a great point. Equal contribution, meaning anybody can communicate in the way they prefer.

Ed Pokropski: Yeah, ’cause sometimes that’ll happen, like I’ve been in meetings, well-intentioned meetings where people the person leading are like: alright, let’s go around the table and like go to each person and put them on the spot. And some people who are like I, I really don’t have an idea this time. I’m so, you know what I mean?

Or like, oh God, please nothing. Don’t call. You know what I mean?

But if I ask them to write it out in a brief.

Or hey, maybe let’s do this one-on-one Like, they deal better in smaller groups, I think that’s okay like if good ideas are, is what’s gonna come out of that, then I think it’s good

LAZOU: Yeah, that’s a great point to keep in mind for anybody organizing writing rooms or collaborative projects.

Ed Pokropski: space. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

LAZOU: So let’s talk about your show for a bit. Your comedy show, case 84 adopted in the USA is about your story as a transracial transnational adoptee, and the title really points to how little closure many people like you get.

You’ve contrasted this with the Hollywood portrayals of adopting narratives. You wanna tell us a bit about that and about your show?

Ed Pokropski: Yeah, this show has been kind of the culmination of me doing standup, me doing some talks like this about my background, about being adopted.

And eventually it just came to a point where I felt like I could blend those two together and really kind of focus on not only some of the questions I get as an adoptee, but really why I get the same questions over and over again from people from completely different backgrounds and completely different settings. And why those seem to persist some of the same questions. And of course being in media myself and growing up watching movies and tv and understanding how they can shape our thinking and our actions, I just wanted to approach it from that viewpoint of saying " here’s how I think media influences why I get the same questions, why it’s part of our collective understanding or misunderstanding about adoption and adoptees specifically". And then, tackling the idea of my own search and journey and that side of it is the other half of the story that I go into and address as well.

LAZOU: Do you feel like that was a healing process to write and perform this show and create that representation for yourself and others like you?

Ed Pokropski: I think so, it does feel I’m doing something good, but also fun and engaging , not only for myself. I don’t know that’s even necessarily the goal I went in with, to heal myself. I can’t say that’s what it was. I went in with the idea that I had been performing and I wanted something longer or more specific to try to sink my teeth into. And this felt really good and it felt like I had all the pieces that I was building to get me to this point. So it felt like a natural step. But, yeah, I think the idea of it being a way to heal is, is nice and I’ll, I’ll Hey, I’ll take it. You know,

LAZOU: Yeah, why not?

So I’d like to get a little bit more into, the difference between your experience and what you’ve seen from Hollywood. I think that’s something that people like me who have not been adopted probably didn’t think about until we hear stories like yours, right?

Ed Pokropski: Sure. this isn’t just specific to adoption. I think this is specific to a lot of experiences and I know this because, working in the industry, at least in some regard, you only have so much time to get a message or point across. A lot of times people use shorthand. A lot of times people use what’s already been built upon in terms of precedent. So sometimes if that’s built on bad reasoning or bad understanding, it just perpetuates the same idea. So, similar to adoption we have these ideas about, you know, what adoption, looks like, what it feels like, what adoptees should act like, how they should, you know, one small thing is like how adoptees should always feel gratitude towards, you know, their adoption situation, which I think if we really thought for a minute, there’s no way any system could be a hundred percent perfect rate of, oh, I adopt a kid and now it’s a perfect family and they go off and it’s awesome. But somehow within adoption, that seems to be the assumption is that adoption then equals perfect family. That’s one thing I think seems to come up a lot. And when you build that foundation assumption, and then things get stacked on top of that as you’re building these shorthand things to get to a longer story or a longer narrative, that’s where some misunderstandings, and again, not malicious in intent, but just create this weird feeling among adoptees that they should always just be gracious all the time, which is like impossible.

LAZOU: Yeah. No human is gracious all the time. What

Ed Pokropski: Exactly

Yeah.

LAZOU: What makes a good joke for you? What’s your writing process like?

Ed Pokropski: At its simplest terms. Do people laugh? And Comedy is subjective of course, but for me it’s like, am I getting a laugh with the joke?

There’s the debate with people who feel like comedy make you feel uncomfortable or comedy should do this, or should do that.

And everyone has their own interpretation of what they like to go to see comedy and what they like to put out there as comedy. But at the end of the day, like if it truly is to be funny comedy then can’t think of anything other than than to laugh and feel good about it. So

I do think, when I think of writing a joke or thinking of a good joke is like, that’s, one parameter.

And then I guess the other one is just, am I getting a good new take on something? Or,

Or even if it’s a concept, people understand, am I finding a way to twist it a little bit? Am I bringing my own unique perspective to it?

And I think that’s what a lot of, comedians do is, yes, this might sound like a similar setup, but now I’m bringing in my viewpoint to make it specific to me and make this crowd laugh. So I think that’s the other thing I try to think about, am I really adding something to this topic, and am I being true to myself in terms of how I’m approaching it? If I’m doing another type of style of comedian that really doesn’t feel good, right, to me, and this is what starting out, you’re trying to figure out. You’re like, am I this kind of comedian? Am I that kind of comedian? When you figure that out, it feels really, good. And I think that’s what I’d say is like, when all those things come together, that to me feels like a good joke.

LAZOU: Yeah, you know, speaking of different types of comedy, many comedy shows have not aged well. Bits that are playing stereotypes or mocking accents, a lot of those things have been called out as problematic even when they come from the community that is being made fun of.

Russell Peters for example. And I think even Trevor Noah said something about the laugh that he gets from the black community is not the same as the laugh he’s getting from the white community. And what is implied in that laugh? I’m curious how you navigate that as a writer and comedian.

Ed Pokropski: I’ve read this before but like comedy is it falls out of favor the quickest because it, it, it is, it is that kind of risky thing that, you know, what’s funny today or what’s okay today can change, especially now.

In terms of myself, I would never do an accent thing because it doesn’t make sense. Like I, if I did an impression of my mom I wouldn’t be putting on an accent, because she’s not not, you know, she doesn’t, she didn’t have a Asian accent. So it’s not something that I could start to dip into in that way from my perspective, It would feel a bit really weird if I started putting on Asian accents for things in a specific way.

I think the hardest thing, though to try to consider is every time we feel discomfort towards that, you know, we sort of give semblance to the idea that an accent that something bad like an accent’s just the nature of language and learning languages and people have accents. This is an accent. What I have right now is an accent. We all have accents in different ways. So I get what you are referring to in terms of certain comedians really playing into these stereotypes to get these laughs and whether they understand that or, or not, or whatever their intentions are. At the same time it’s the more I do Asian American shows and interact with people, the more we try to talk about oh, this is stereotypical and this is this type of stuff we do spread ourselves apart. We end up on different sides of a conversation. And I understand why those conversations need to happen, and I do my best for myself to think about it from the perspective of that person that decided that that’s what they wanted to cover. And I hope and give them the benefit of the doubt that they’re covering it for the reason of like, that’s, this is just what they wanted to express. Are there times that I’ve seen comedians, I’m like, that doesn’t feel great. I don’t feel like that’s helping anything? Of course, Of course I have.

Trying to take my own taste out of it sometimes. sometimes try and I try to look at it as objectively as possible. but it doesn’t always work out. I do my best, but it’s trying to see the value and have conversations like this, continue to have conversations like this, and hopefully audiences and people who are watching understand that there’s more voices out there. Like, Yes, you can have your, you said Russell Peters. You can have your comedians who wanna lean into the stereotypes and do that type of, comedy, but hopefully people see other comedians with a different take and a different voice on, topics like that.

LAZOU: Yeah. I think the main criticism I’ve seen regarding the accent specifically is that a lot of people it reminds them of being mocked for their accent or their parents being mocked for their accent and it’s you know, triggering, which I could totally understand. But yeah I think it’s a very tricky art form that I do not envy you guys.

Ed Pokropski: No, and, and, and you brought, and I think you got at the point before that I think I was trying to get to was that is that i. The people who feel triggered by those things because they were teased for it.

The part that I hope we would get to is, and I think some people are to it, is that we should be pushing back and saying, saying this accent is just an accent. To make fun of it before, was wrong, but to hear it now it should just be what it is. And I think that’s the hardest part is like as we laugh at it now or as it makes us uncomfortable now or triggers some sort of trauma that we’ve had before, it’s because it was teased then. But outside of that idea or bubble, it should just be neutral or either looked at like any other accent, like a British accent or whatever and it would lift that. But it’s hard. because how do you how do you lift trauma in, you know, one person at a time? But that’s what I mean to say is that, Yeah, hopefully we can get to a point where Someone just be like, yeah, I have an accent. So what? Like,

LAZOU: Like,

Ed Pokropski: oh, you know?

Okay.

LAZOU: yeah. I think the difference is if the comedian themselves have an accent, nobody has a problem with that. But if the comedian is putting on an accent, making the accent the joke, then that’s the problem. Right? Like You don’t have to imitate somebody’s accent if your joke was funny in the first place. .

Ed Pokropski: sure. And and this is really what I say is really only in regards to the people of the same background doing the accent if they’re imitating a parent for instance,

LAZOU: yeah.

Ed Pokropski: What I’ve just said is only relation to that. I, I, don’t think a person doing a stereotypical and a mocking accent is right in any sphere. That’s, that’s, that we can draw the line at and say like, yeah, why do you have to be doing this accent? Does it really add to the joke? Is it really that you are just mocking someone’s. Then if that’s, the case, then it’s mean-spirited, and then, then you’re a lazy comedian, because if that’s all you can lean on, then your writing’s bad. And that’s fine. And you can just be a bad writer and bad comedian. But like if you’re gonna get bent outta shape because we call you out on it, then whatever, what can you do? .Yeah.

LAZOU: Yeah. So you write promos for shows, movies, sports events, and DEI initiatives

With several of our guests. We’ve talked about, we need representation not just on screen, like in the spotlight, but behind the scenes, in the writing rooms, behind the cameras, every step of the creative process, including marketing.

When you’re writing promos, have you seen instances where the diversity or lack thereof of the copywriters impacted how effective a campaign was? Like can you, are there specific examples that jump out that were like, oh my God, this resonated so much more because of the experience that the writers brought?

Or on the other end? That bombed because clearly nobody had any idea what we were talking about.

Ed Pokropski: You know what, I think the best process is when you have a good, amount of voices to craft certain things. Now, obviously too many voices is not good either, because then it’s like you’ll never get to the finish line. That’s not just with stuff like this, that’s with any project, you know, you need the specific, focused amount of voices to get to where you need to go.

There’s been times where I’ve had to write things that are a little bit more tricky and you’re trying to get the tone right, you’re trying to get the voice right. It’s obviously, it’s easy to write a movie promo or a thing for a reality show or a sport like that, in in a way it writes itself. But when it’s something like a more serious topic or if you’re covering stuff in relation to DEI initiatives or you’re trying to like cover so much ground in a short period of time and you’re always gonna miss, you’re always gonna miss a little bit. Like you’re never gonna be able to get the whole human experience of any group down perfectly. But you try your best, you, work with people, you you do your research and I think in those situations, at least trying and at least putting something out there and even if it gets critiqued, then maybe the next one’s a little bit better. and that’s okay.

Ed Pokropski: And I think if we keep, being okay with just making steps and then the next one’s better and the next one’s better that feels, really good. It feels bad when people think this thing has to be the definitive piece or this thing has to be the thing that says it all, and it’s impossible. It’s never gonna happen. I think that’s the side where we all can fall down sometimes. Everything’s made from like a bunch of tiny pieces and a bunch of tiny steps. So stuff like this should be exactly the same.

LAZOU: Yeah, mean, there’s so much going on in the world and it’s impossible for any human to be knowledgeable in all of those things. Even,

Even me, like I consider myself a pretty progressive person and I try to keep up with what’s going on in the world, but I’m sure I will mess up at some point.

And I want people to let me know if I’m saying something terrible

Ed Pokropski: and that’s the whole thing about progress, and progressing is you’re always gonna be behind. That’s the nature of progress is that, to try to get ahead of it sometimes it’s really hard, but progress should always be a little step ahead. And that’s the point, is that then we’ll figure it out. We’ll come along.

LAZOU: Yeah. That’s just like fear of failure shouldn’t prevent us from trying.

Ed Pokropski: absolutely not. No.

LAZOU: Yeah. Now for people in entertainment, there’s sometimes a pressure to both represent Asian Americans correctly and also represent us as more than just a monolith, not like the stereotypical Asian, there’s this double pressure of well, you gotta represent the Asians, but also what does that mean, we’re not a monolith.

How do You work with that?

Ed Pokropski: I, I just think we should be open to letting people, and again, just speaking on the Asian American community, we should open be to people just being themselves in every way that means, so that means not even putting the idea of this goes against stereotypes or this is stereotypical. If we just let people exist and then let more and more people tell their stories that will get us to where we need to be. I mean, I understand why people wanna call certain things Asian and not, and all that stuff. I understand where that comes from because you’re trying to like push up and lift the whole thing. So it’s good to have categories and boxes. It helps sometimes.

But if we truly want to say we’re not a monolith, then we have to accept all messages, all things. Even if they make us uncomfortable, if we’re like, ah, it’s not my thing. It doesn’t have to be your thing, you know, it’s, it’s another asian Americans thing, so that’s good enough. That should be the point. And yeah, that comes with its limits, of course. Like if if they have prejudice and they’re putting another group down, then that’s not something we need to say is acceptable.

But, in terms of the idea of just on the simplest of terms, saying if the stereotype, is doctors lawyers, and all that stuff, and we say oh, someone who works in the creative field, ooh, they’re pushing against stereotypes and, and whatever. It’s like, no, no, no, no. I don’t want that. I don’t want, I’ve gone to a lot of things where people are like, Oh, you you’ve gone against. I’m like, no, I just, this just happens to be what I like. I didn’t try to go against stereotypes. This was just what I was gonna get into. I meet an Asian doctor or an asian lawyer. I’m like. So interested in what they do. And I think it’s okay for us to all be proud with what we do, and not have to put the pressure of saying we are perpetuating stereotypes or we’re not perpetuating stereotypes. And I think that’s a pressure we don’t need to be putting our ourselves.

So whatever career you have or you don’t have, or whatever you’re doing should honestly be enough.

LAZOU: That’s an awesome answer. Thank you.

Ed Pokropski: Yeah. Thank you.

LAZOU: What advice do you have for listeners who aspire to have a similar career trajectory as you?

Ed Pokropski: I can’t say there’s any special ingredient to the idea of getting into film and television in any sort of way, I did it as many people do with you just start at the bottom and you work your way up. you try to put yourself in the right positions and learn along the way and, You know, approach it in a humble way but still wanting to be confident yourself but still come from a place of, humility is still, I think a good way. And I’m not just, again, not just saying that from an Asian perspective, but I will say this is that there’s never been a better time, time to just try to be creative amongst other things that you do. That’s the great thing about creativity is it can be done in anything, anything can exist on that plane. you know, I can’t, Just because I go on WebMD and then, you know, I self-diagnose. I can be like, well I’m, I’m being a doctor now Like, that’s not how that works. However, you could sort of be, you know, you can be creative. in a lot of different ways and That’s. that kind of works. So that’s kind of the beauty of it. So you know, when I was in school you needed to like have a real camera. You had to digitize, you had to bring over footage. You had The process was just like unbelievably like cumbersome to try to, and even before that, like I was in the digital age thinking about people with film, but now you can shoot something on your phone and it looks pretty good. You can there’s so many platforms to post it on. So there’s never been a better time to just try these things and try to scratch that itch. if that’s what you want and if it’s a career that you wanna pursue, then great.

And Just know, like,

LAZOU: yeah. That’s great advice.

Ed Pokropski: Yeah,

LAZOU: So what’s next for you? What are you excited about?

Ed Pokropski: You know, I’m gonna try to get to a couple more cities in the US. Like I want to get to DC. I wanna maybe go back to some places I’ve been. I’m wearing my AKA this is a adoptee association in San Francisco, which was like a great place that I performed this previous year and I just wanna try to find more places you know, I’ve been connecting with adoptee groups in the cities that I go to. and that’s been really rewarding and fun. I want to try to get to Minneapolis because there’s a big adoptee population out there. and yeah, I’m just gonna try to set some more dates in 2024, and get to some more cities and that’s what I’m looking forward to.

LAZOU: Awesome. Uh, Before I let you go, we have our rapid fire section.

Ed Pokropski: Oh yeah.

LAZOU: one word or one phrase answers. You don’t have to really think about it too much.

You don’t have to explain, but you can if you want to.

Ed Pokropski: Okay, great. I’m, I’m, an explainer, so I might explain with some of them.

LAZOU: What’s an Asian food that you should like, but don’t?

Ed Pokropski: I guess what do you mean by should like, it, it’s something that a lot of people like or just because it’s

LAZOU: maybe something that you feel like, yeah. You know, I, I probably should like this, but I don’t

Ed Pokropski: You know what, I don’t often crave bubble tea yeah’s certain ones that I’d like and I’ll have it, but it’s not like it’s the thing. The other thing I was gonna say is the century egg. I think that kind of can divide people too.

LAZOU: too.

Ed Pokropski: So That’s why I was, I was gonna say it’s not necessarily that I should like, it, but century

LAZOU: who you ask

Ed Pokropski: Well,

that’s fair. And my wife loves it. She absolutely loves it. She likes it in congee, and I just can’t do it. I’ve tried. I’ve tried and I just can’t. do it. , yeah.

LAZOU: What’s an Asian food? You’ll never get tired of

Ed Pokropski: Dumplings. I, I could eat dumplings, uh, till I’m all kinds. I don’t even mind if The skin’s too thick. I don’t even mind whatever. I’ll never get sick of dumplings.

LAZOU: Good choice.

Ed Pokropski: Mm-hmm.

LAZOU: Who would play you in a feature film or TV series version of "Case 84: adopted in the USA"

Ed Pokropski: Steven Yun, I would be, uh, over the moon flattered if he were to play me, that, that would be the height of it. Yeah. If Steven Yun played me, that would be amazing.

LAZOU: Who is your favorite comedian at the moment?

Ed Pokropski: You know what? I’ve gotten asked this a bunch before. I feel like it’s a cheat to say, but he’s helped me a lot and he’s still like, posts about my show. It’s, it’s probably Ronnie Chang. You know, everyone works hard but he really feels like he loves it.

Like he’s out every night. Even at the level he’s at, he’s grinding constantly. And the way he helps other Asian American comedians, the way he grinds and, even at the level he’s at. Yeah. I just think it’s really great that he’s at that level and pays it back too.

LAZOU: Awesome. And finally, what’s your favorite compliment you’ve ever gotten about your work?

Ed Pokropski: I would say more recently, and this is one I’ve told and I think about a lot, and it’s from the San Francisco adoptee group. They’re made up of a lot of Koreans and they’re of a similar age as me, they’re kind of jaded, which I kind of like, they’re, they’re jaded in some ways and like optimistic in others, which I think like, resonates with me. I did my show out there, a bunch of them came out to support. It was awesome. I finished the show, and a few of them came up to me and they were like, we just wanna let you know, we really didn’t think this was gonna be very good. we just thought it was just gonna be another show about adoption and wasn’t gonna be, it was gonna suck.

They, I think. They said we thought it was gonna suck. But then they said,

actually.

LAZOU: actually.

Ed Pokropski: It was really good and we really liked it and it really hit a lot of great points, so thank you. And I think that’s one of the best compliments I’ve ever received is "we thought it was gonna suck, but then it turned out to be really good". And the fact that it came from adoptees and in that way I think was was really special.

LAZOU: Yeah, for sure. Way to turn the audience around.

Ed Pokropski: And I love it. I actually do love working from a deficit, and I’m okay with it. That’s fine by me.

LAZOU: Awesome. Thank you so much for doing the show.

Ed Pokropski: Thank you. No, I really appreciate it. And, um, I’m thank you for all the thoughtful and nuanced questions.