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GUEST BIO
Ryan Alexander Holmes [何仁安] is an actor and content creator based out of Los Angeles, CA. Having garnered a sizable presence on social media by using his platform to embrace his mixed Chinese and African American background through comedic story telling and poignant writings about his family’s perseverance, Ryan has made it his goal to encourage others of mixed ethnic/cultural backgrounds to fully embrace who they are and to show the world there is unimaginable strength in discovering harmony in multiculturalism. His acting credits include For the People on ABC, Dear White People on Netflix, The Morning Show on AppleTV+ and Back on The Strip, where he stars alongside Kevin Hart and Wesley Snipes.
DEFINITIONS
- D.A.R.E.: Drug Abuse Resistance Education is a program in which police officers make visits to elementary school classrooms, warning children that drugs are harmful and should be refused. It was created as a part of Reagan’s so-called war on drugs initiative. Its effectiveness is highly contested and some studies show it can be counterproductive.
TAKEAWAYS
- If you are Asian, then you look Asian. Just like if you are American, then you look American.
- It is not our job to educate white people about their racist behavior.
- It is our job to hold our own community accountable by having non-judgmental conversations about racism that is embedded in our culture.
- If you’re an artist, then you create art, people see themselves reflected in it, and it makes them feel connected to other humans. That’s pretty magical if you think about it.
- Keeping in mind that the industry is a box can be helpful to remember when your art doesn’t fit in.
- How can we celebrate our cultures in more inclusive ways that don’t implicitly put others down? How do we decolonize our culture?
CONTACT
Instagram | TikTok | Web | LinkedIn | Twitter
Host: Lazou
Additional Music Links:
Nuances Podcast – curated Spotify | Apple Music playlists with past guests, hosts & more Asian diaspora artists.
Video with captions
Transcript
LAZOU: Thank you so much for doing this
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Great to be here.
LAZOU: You grew up in L. A. What was that like for you, growing up in that neighborhood?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: I grew up in a city that has the demographic of, being pretty much 50 percent white, 50 percent Chinese, specifically Taiwanese and has roots in being very conservative. 0. 0001 percent black, and that was Me and my brother and we’re both, half, I don’t say this cause I always say I’m a hundred percent, but we were both, half.
And so we both made one black person. And that was the 0. 001 percent of the entire city. And so I didn’t see myself reflected in my own community. And that had an impact on me, for sure. But it was still very great school district, a very good school system. One of the best public systems in America, honestly.
But I, have to include the fact that yeah, I didn’t feel like I belonged to the community. And a lot of the community members made me feel that way. But luckily I was raised by, my parents who always. made it a point to make me understand that I control how I feel about myself, but still, granted, I was a kid. those were difficult times, but I think in retrospect, we did the best that we could and I did the best that I could.
LAZOU: Yeah. When you say that you didn’t feel like your community welcomed you as one of their own, was that mostly people you don’t know or also people that you knew in school that?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Both. Yeah, both. cause the people that you don’t know might give you a look or might say a comment and the people that you do know might, give snide comments or put you in this categorical, stereotypical box that they see people that look like you on TV. So those are the challenges.
LAZOU: Yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: so when I do look back at that town that I grew up in, I don’t see it as home and I don’t, want to go back, even though my family, moved to the adjacent city, which is completely different in my eyes. And we consider that home for sure.
LAZOU: Yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: More, it’s a different demographic.
It’s like a different sort of political leanings too. And I think that makes a difference.
LAZOU: Yeah, it’s so interesting how overall, L. A is such a diverse place, but there’s so many little pockets that are very different from each other,
Ryan Alexander Holmes: it’s segregated. All the neighborhoods have a different vibe.
Exactly. It’s actually very segregated which people don’t really know. I know it’s one of the most diverse cities in the world, but everyone’s in their own pocket. And because it’s a driving city, you don’t have to interact with people outside of your pocket. If you don’t want to, you can go from your pocket and get on a freeway 30 minutes away and go to another pocket that looks like your pocket. You know what I’m saying?
LAZOU: Yeah, for sure. At the time when you were growing up that was during the era of Rodney King riots and all of that. There were a lot of tensions between the Asian and black community in LA. How did that affect your family?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: I don’t know man, I think like, my family, they’re Lone Rangers, man. They like, go to the beat of their own drum, at least my mom and my dad do, right? My dad’s born in the South. in poverty with all black people, right? My mom grew up in Taiwan with all Taiwanese people and they come to America and then they meet each other we’re talking about pockets earlier, like they left their pockets, you know, to be with each other.
LAZOU: How did they meet?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: My mom was a news reporter for the Chinese News in L. A. and she was also teaching Chinese to high profile clients. And my dad was wanting to do business in China, in Taiwan. And so he took lessons and she was his instructor, Chinese instructor. Yeah, so they met each other, and couldn’t be more different, right?
Culturally. But, love is a powerful drug. Love is, Love is a powerful drug. Yeah, they got together, and both sides, each of their families didn’t really mesh and vibe with each other, and a large part of their relationship, especially in the beginning, was just like them. With
each other.
LAZOU: but it sounds like over time the whole family has come together, right?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think what’s funny, because to me, I make content about this, and people sometimes say, how do you guys get along? Like how is that possible? It’s what do you mean? To me it’s easy. I’m like, I’m both. My mom is Chinese. My dad is black, but I’m both. My brother’s both.
And so I’m just like, what do you mean? We’re just like blood related and we’re family and we love each other. Like I don’t see the world the way they see the world. And I think growing up they wanted, and when I say they, I mean like these people that aren’t in my family, the people in society, they’re like, you need to think the way that we think about you.
And I’m like, I don’t think that way. Get out of my face. But it becomes hard when it seems like the majority of society is telling you that
And so I think I’ve reflected how my mom and my dad dealt with it, which is alright, I’m going to go into the beat of my own drum I’m going to create my art and my content and from my heart and what I know is love and what I know is quintessential humanity and share that.
And I’m going to feel alone. And I did in the beginning, but now it’s been like, Oh, okay. There’s way more people that actually vibe with what I’m saying than I thought. I thought I was just going to be destined to just be spouting this into a void but feeling good about it. But now I have a community of people who support me outside of my family.
LAZOU: Yeah. in one of your posts, you shared that your parents taught you the real history, not just the sanitized history
that you hear in school. What did they teach you and how did they do that in a way that didn’t make you feel like giving up on this country? Yeah,
Ryan Alexander Holmes: You’re a kid, right? So they’re not going to tell you, like they’re going to tell you for example, my dad said, Abraham Lincoln didn’t necessarily free the slaves out of the kindness of his heart, he did it because he knew that he would keep the union together and it would be a way for him to win the war.
And so I, I go to school and I say that and my teacher is like shushing me and telling me to be quiet. And I’m like, but that’s the truth. Like why are you shushing me? That’s when I knew I’m like, Oh, they’re not teaching actual history in these classes. There’s a dichotomy. So I’d always learn something in school and I go to report to my dad about it and then he’d tell me the truth.
And then slowly over time, I realized how the system doesn’t actually tell you the truth and that the truth is in the people and the truth is in the people who experienced it, right? And they’re actual historians, right? That actually write actual accurate history, but you have to find them outside of the system. And my dad is basically one of those, very well read, was very involved in the civil rights movement. When he was a kid and a young adult, and then as a lawyer, he was the head of the black caucus in LA. He was the first black member of a lot of these very white male organizations uh, legal organizations in America.
So his perspective is of both sides. So he knows how they think, right? And he knows how he thinks as a black man, and how the system thinks, and how the system thinks about him. And my mom, of course, she comes from an immigrant perspective, right? So I have that. there’s just so many perspectives, and I think that’s the point, right?
Is that a lot of people just view something from their own perspective, and if they live in their pocket, that’s the perspective they have. And it’s a very A very, I don’t want to say small perspective, but a narrow perspective. And so they can’t see anything outside of that.
And so for me, any time I hear a story, or any time I read the news, or see a news story, I’m like, okay, what’s the other perspective? What are the multiple perspectives? Why are they saying it this way? You know what I mean? What is the angle?
LAZOU: And noticing the choices of words the connotations that are involved in that sentence that they’re putting as a headline.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Like the difference between murdered and were killed.
LAZOU: Yes.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: That’s a huge difference. But it’s so it works on such a subliminal subconscious level that like you won’t even know that you’re being conditioned unless you understand the system and at what it has done to obliterate movements and to create movements that propagate, I don’t want to go this deep, but propagate business over humanity. I’ll just say that.
LAZOU: When I saw you speak on the panel at the book launch event we were both at, you said that you didn’t come out as Chinese until three years ago. Was that because you thought being Chinese was uncool or because you didn’t feel like you were Chinese enough?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Definitely a mixture of both. Yeah, Chinese American representation was sort of non existent, and if it was, it was very, very much, I mean, disrespectful and stereotypical. But, you know, I grew up an immigrant family, right? So I watched Chinese historical dramas, and I watched, Hong Kong and Chinese films growing up a lot.
And so I saw that, but then I saw American Chinese and how they showed us. I wasn’t aware of that dichotomy at the time. But in hindsight, I’m like, there was a huge difference the way that Chinese Americans carried themselves and were shown on TV and what what seeing themselves shown on TV in America, like how that affected us.
I thought it was cool to be Chinese, but I’m in America and Chinese Americans carried themselves differently in my eyes from what I was seeing. And also in my environment, this conservative Chinese Taiwanese environment that was like 50 percent white, 50 percent Asian, I saw a lot of Asians wanting to assimilate into this idea of whiteness and to erase themselves and not even embracing their culture publicly, right?
And later on in life, I realized that other Chinese Americans that I grew up with would be like, damn dude, like you’re hella Chinese. Like you speak the language, you know, all the holidays, like you show it, you’re hanging out with your, and I’m like. I thought you did that.
I thought I wasn’t Chinese enough, you know what I mean? but we all were sort of experiencing the same thing Like we didn’t even want to talk to each other about being Chinese. We didn’t want to share our culture with each other because we thought it wasn’t cool, you know, and we thought it would be not cool to each other too when in reality we were all in it together
LAZOU: yeah. It’s very funny. I’ve had a few people come on this podcast and they would tell me like, they’ve never talked about this until now. Like they never talked to their Asian friends about being Asian in America.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Isn’t it crazy? It’s a new thing..
LAZOU: So I grew up on an African island.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: What??
LAZOU: So I’m ethnically Chinese, but I don’t speak the language, never been to China. so I’ve, often struggled with am I Chinese? Cause I’m African, but I look Chinese.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Wow. You’re, you’re African. Where? Where in Africa, what island?
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Yeah.
LAZOU: yeah. So yeah, it’s funny how that works. Mauritius was very different from here. Most people are dark skinned. So I was in the minority.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Wow.
LAZOU: And I didn’t realize just how much of a difference that makes, like it’s still hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that technically the U. S. is majority white and I’m like, how can there be so many white people? I don’t get it. Like it’s still in my brain. It’s no brown people are a majority.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: That’s so crazy. I mean.
LAZOU: like every
Now and then it hits me. I’m
Ryan Alexander Holmes: That’s crazy.
LAZOU: White people are the
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Wait, so you were from Mauritius but now you live in America?
LAZOU: Yeah, I’m in L. A. Well, north of L. A., yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Wow. why did you grow up in Mauritius?
LAZOU: My grandparents on my dad’s side and my great grandparents on my mom’s side escaped China during the war because of poverty and they didn’t want to be fighting people. They were like, we’re out of here.
So they left. And I guess there was a small Chinese community that had started going to Mauritius. They started. little shops, they would import goods, they would have little convenience stores on plantations and whatnot. That those were the initial Chinese migrants. And so, yeah, my, ancestors basically fled on my mom’s side. My great grandfather, he was drafted to be in the army and he decided, I’m not fighting this.
And he dressed up as a woman, got on a boat with all the women, and just left.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Oh my God, he dressed up as a, wait, that’s a movie.
And then he went, and then he went to Africa.
LAZOU: Yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: That is a movie. I want that to be written as a movie. Oh my God. That’s so good.
Jesus. That’s crazy.
LAZOU: Yeah, so like, my family has been there for several generations now. My generation does not speak any Chinese. Most of us.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: What do they speak in merges? English?
LAZOU: So we are taught English and French in school, but most Mauritians speak Creole at home. So it’s mostly derived from French, but with words from English, Bhojpuri, Hindi, and a bunch of other languages.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: do you speak that? Do you speak?
LAZOU: Creole. Yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Wow.
LAZOU: Yeah,
Ryan Alexander Holmes: dope.
LAZOU: family, they’re of Hakka origin, so
some relatives speak Hakka. I know a few words of Hakka, but I never properly learned Mandarin. And when I had the opportunity as a kid in school, I’m like, nah, I don’t want to learn it.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Well, Yeah, that makes sense. It’s funny because for you, it’s, it’s the same, but it’s different. Like, why you didn’t want to learn Mandarin, I assume. Let me ask you, was it because it was uncool or was it because there was no one there anyway? It wasn’t a negative thing, it was just like a non representation thing.
LAZOU: I didn’t see the point because nobody spoke Mandarin, like nobody in my family spoke Mandarin.
And also, ever since I was a little kid, I had this feeling that the Chinese community was inherently, conservative and a little bit racist. And I did not like that.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah..
LAZOU: At the time, I felt that the West was progress. Everybody was liberal. I
can’t wait to get out of here.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: got you.
LAZOU: want to go where all the liberals are.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah.
LAZOU: which is weird. I was assimilating into whiteness, even though I had no white people around.
. It was more like, I don’t see why I should connect more to this culture superficially, when there’s so much that I don’t agree with I felt like the racism that I’ve seen in my community.
was something that really did not jive with me, even as a kid.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah.
LAZOU: And I was like, I don’t want to be part of this. It was subconscious. But looking back, like it always bothered me. And I remember having arguments with adults when I was like eight or nine years old about
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Wow.
Also because, yeah, you’re growing I don’t know if that generation that you’re talking to grew up in Mauritius too.
LAZOU: did.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Oh that’s so interesting that they would have. Yeah. It’s not, it’s surprising, but it’s not surprising at the same time.
LAZOU: Chinese people are only 2 percent of that population, so we are definitely a minority. We have zero political power whatsoever.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Oh okay..
LAZOU: But because they’re a minority, they want to preserve the culture is what they kept saying. But I’m like, you can’t preserve the culture without being racist,
Ryan Alexander Holmes: and they didn’t really teach. Did they teach you the language? Did they speak in their language? But cause they’re talking about preserving the culture, right?
LAZOU: Yeah, and they tried, but again I was not interested.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah
LAZOU: I think it was also a huge part because I was more interested in the media I was consuming, which is all Western media, right? Like I didn’t grow up with any Chinese media at all. Because my family, when they migrated, they were from poor villages. They didn’t know how to read, some of them.
I think my grandmother on my dad’s side knew how to read, but like most of my other relatives, they can’t read Chinese. So they can speak Hakka, but they can’t read. they’ve been there three or four generations now. So our version of Chinese culture is like It’s own thing, you
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah. I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. That’s so fascinating to me.
LAZOU: Yeah, but anyway, I digress.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: No. That was great. I loved hearing. I mean, damn, you’re, that’s an interesting story. I had no idea, but that’s the thing. Like people look at me and they’re like, I don’t know, man, is he Puerto Rican or something? Does he speak Spanish? and then, you know, I’m Chinese and their mind is blown, but look, like I wouldn’t have guessed that you grew up in Africa
and that you speak
LAZOU: blow white people’s mind with
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah.
LAZOU: they ask me, where are you really from?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah. It’s like Africa,
LAZOU: Africa. Well, Where are your parents from?
Also Africa. Well, What about your grandparents?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Africa, Wow. Yeah. Yeah. How far do you want me to go back? It’s a, it’s Africa. mean,
LAZOU: if you’re trying to say what kind of Asian I am,
Ryan Alexander Holmes: But that’s crazy. Cause I’ve, I’ve never gone to Africa and my perception of Africa from Western media was like huts. And people are wearing hay around their private parts. You know what I mean? And throwing spears.
LAZOU: Oh, so one time, my cousin and I, both from Mauritius, we’re in college, we were sharing a place and we were hanging out with a bunch of kids, and one of them, I don’t know. He was asking questions about Mauritius, about growing up in Africa. And my cousin just decided to really troll him.
And he said, Oh yeah, we live in huts and in our free time, we like run after the gazelles and and, and like, he was eating it up. He’s really?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Wow.
LAZOU: would just
Ryan Alexander Holmes: connected to nature. Wow. Do you hunt for food?
LAZOU: It was hilarious. Yeah.
And at one time I got into the elevator, it was the first week of university, everybody’s new there. So they’re like, Hey, where are you from? Just moved into this residence. And I’m like, Oh, I’m from Mauritius. It’s this tiny island east of Madagascar. guy looks at me and he’s like. isn’t that a movie? I’m like, yeah, Madagascar is also a country.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah. That’s what it’s named after. The country. Yeah.
LAZOU: But yeah,
so I have some very interesting conversations around the, where are you from question.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah, right? Cause it’s not even,
LAZOU: It’s like, oh
boy,
Ryan Alexander Holmes: even like,
LAZOU: see this coming.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: yeah, cause usually when they ask that, they’re like, this person’s from China, this person’s from, Korea, this person’s from Asia. I wanna know where in Asia they’re from.
LAZOU: Yeah. And it’s funny because I think because where I grew up, the only East Asians were Chinese.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Mhm.
LAZOU: That’s all I knew growing up.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah.
LAZOU: I can’t tell Asians apart.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: You know, I’ve gotten better. gotten better in the past several
LAZOU: I mean, now I can tell a little bit by like, the fashion choices, you
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yes,
LAZOU: like stuff like that,
Ryan Alexander Holmes: That’s more so what it is.
LAZOU: But it blew my mind when I moved to Canada, I studied in Canada, and people were like, Oh yeah, I can tell Asians apart. And I’m like, how I’m Asian and I can tell them apart.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah, but the people that say that, they still get it wrong sometimes. I feel like it’s a multitude of things. It’s like the way they dress. It’s like their hair. Style. And these are things that can be changed, right? These are cultural things. Cause sometimes the facial features are just like, I have no idea.
I don’t know if you’re Japanese, I don’t know what you are, but like the sneakers and the shirt and your hairstyle scream Japan. So you’re Japanese, you know? yeah,
LAZOU: I feel like that’s such a non exact science because what does it mean to look Asian?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. If you’re Asian, you look Asian and that’s what, and that’s the funny thing that I say. I’m like, it’s not that I don’t look Asian, just never seen an Asian like me before. And some people just cannot wrap their mind around that. I’m like, if I am Asian, my mom is Asian, DNA wise, that’s half of me, then I look Asian because I literally am. It’s really not that hard. But once again, it’s that society thing. It’s majority of Asians that I see in society look this way. I’m like, I don’t care. I don’t care what the majority of Asians in your mind are. I am Asian. I look Asian.
LAZOU: Today’s your lucky day, you’re seeing a new type of Asian.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: That’s what I’m saying. And it’s, but it’s, it took so long for me to get to that place where I could say that confidently and really believe it and understand it to be
LAZOU: Yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: because it is.
LAZOU: What caused that shift for you?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: When I came out as Chinese.
You know, During BLM and Stop Asian Hate when those two movements were clashing and both these movements don’t really speak. For our entire diaspora, they don’t. Some people can be lost in the fringes. And some movements can take a turn because the majority, like groupthink is not always a good thing.
I started to see that. Yeah, exactly. And I started to see that. And I’m like, okay no. I can’t just slash onto a movement and decide that this movement speaks for me. Whatever movement it is. Whatever culture or community that I’m attached to that is deciding to follow this movement.
I’m like, I still gotta retain my own voice and my own understanding of self and bring that to the movement. The movement doesn’t decide who I am. I decide who I am and I join the movement. And that was the difference that I had to decipher and realize for myself. And it’s the same thing with anything.
Movements, political parties, organizations, groups. I don’t ever want to feel like I can’t say something that’s true
LAZOU: Right.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: that, that goes against who I am and what I stand for because, Oh, the movement says this or the organization says this,
LAZOU: Yeah. I want to get a little bit into that. What about those movements, Black Lives Matter and Stop Asian Hate? I’m sure there’s a lot of nuances of your experience that got lost in the main narratives of those movements. Do you want to highlight a few of those?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Sure there were, but there was nobo dy that really stood for the movement that was erasing who I was, right? There may have been people and followers of the movement, but no key figure of the movement actually spoke for the movement erased me.
You know what I mean? And they both welcomed me with open arms to speak at events, to talk about my experience, right? So it never was the people who were running sort of the rallies or the panels. It wasn’t them. It was the narratives that were driven, probably even outside of the organization. Do you know what I mean?
That then become narratives within the organization, but you don’t know where they came from. I saw this Asian organization that was for Stop Asian Hate, but they had drawn this cartoon of black people raiding a store and like stepping on them with BLM flags and they’re holding stop Asian hate flags.
And I’m just like, what the fuck, what reality are you living in? Do you know what I mean? But I always, I always also question like, where did this actually come from? Did it actually come from within our community? Cause it could come from outside our community and they just want us to fight each other.
And. I could allow them to succeed or I could be like, okay, that’s a picture that I don’t know where it came from. I’m not going to attach that to stop Asian hate or BLM. I’m just going to keep it pushing with my narrative of humanity and love and justice and world peace.
LAZOU: Yeah, that is something that not enough people are doing in all of the movements like, right now with like free Palestine movement.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Oh man. Yeah. I see a lot of, there’s always going to be trolls, right? And there’s always going to be people who will try to co opt the narrative and just run with something that the rest of us are like, what the hell are you thinking?
LAZOU: And we can choose to pay attention to those. And there’s a lot of them that are just in a long tail that are just noise. Or we can choose to focus on the main thing, like the actual official. Thing that we’re trying to do and often that is not where all the weird stuff is coming from
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah. You start to see a lot of egos arising.
LAZOU: Yeah
Ryan Alexander Holmes: on both sides, because there really is no side, right? There
is like, I don’t want kids to die. That’s not really a side. Do you know what I mean? And if you don’t want kids to die, okay, how do we make sure that these kids don’t die? But people are like, I’m gonna choose this side, or I’m gonna choose this side, and I’m gonna hate the people that are on this side, and hate the people on that side.
I’m like, that’s not helping children not die.
LAZOU: Yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: So if this, what is the goal here? Is it your ego to make yourself feel better? Cause you’re saying like this side is evil. Is it cause that’s not solving anything. So I’m starting to see that and I’m starting to see, cause I’m in the content creation space, people hop on these movements.
LAZOU: Yeah..
Ryan Alexander Holmes: And they’re not even a part, regardless of they’re a part of the community or not, they’re talking about this as if this is it, right?
And there are genocides happening in other countries right now in Africa, but they’re not talking about that. Do you know what I mean? So how are you yelling at people for not talking about this and if you’re not speaking up for this, then you’re evil and you’re just as hateful as the people who are doing this to children.
It’s yo, you need to relax. That’s not how you, that is, you don’t shame people and guilt people and hate people into supporting you. And that’s just not I can’t, I just cannot hop on that train because I’ve been there before. And I know how that just, it makes you lose hope in the world. It makes you start to embrace hate.
You start to become your enemy without knowing it. Because there are no sides. And I say that as somebody who has two communities that are at odds with each other, in quotations, because they’re actually not. They’ve been conditioned to believe that they don’t have things in common, that they should hate each other.
But my family and my literal human body and DNA are proof that that is bullshit.
LAZOU: Yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: So I don’t want to ever fall victim to that toxicity of hatred.
LAZOU: Yeah. It’s been a really weird time to be on social media and just see all the discussion, to put it mildly, around everything that’s happening. And, I empathize with All sides of this in terms of like, it is frustrating to see, especially white people just being like, la la la, nothing is happening.
And it’s hard not to be frustrated
about that.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah, absolutely.
LAZOU: but I also think it’s helpful to remind ourselves that like, okay, what’s the goal here? What are we trying to do?
if the goal is to make people care, how is what I’m doing helping that? Or am I just venting my frustration and
making them even less likely to empathize, right?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah, exactly.
LAZOU: yeah,
Ryan Alexander Holmes: What is the clarity? You have to have clarity of purpose, right? And clarity of the goal, because ego can totally destroy all that. And you feel like you’re doing the, like the God’s honest truth, the right thing. But actually you’re just throwing more hate into the vortex of hate.
Also what I’ve learned over the past several years is the subconscious centering of whiteness, right? Inherent in a lot of things, but also it was inherent in me. how could I work through that, right? And also how could I realize where it was coming from? My childhood conditioning Western media, right?
And music and entertainment and politics, right? Okay, got it. How do I counteract that without hating white people? Because it’s not about white people. We’re talking about whiteness, right? How can I de center whiteness and de prioritize whiteness? People will hear that and be like, you hate white people.
I’m like, did I say that? I didn’t say that. I said, I’m de centering whiteness. Language is very important. The words we choose to use are very important. And for me, that’s been one of the most important things. Because centering whiteness is what the system wants, right? Because that’s the majority, right?
It’s colonization, it’s, I mean, the foundation of the Western world is centered on whiteness and this idea of what whiteness is. How do I not prioritize that and prioritize who I am, self, humanity, quintessential humanity, and all others? How do I do that? And that’s the journey, really. There’s no quintessential answer to that.
There’s no essential answer to that. I am still on that journey. But you cannot convince me to hate anybody.
LAZOU: Yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: And if I start to go down that path, I can feel it. And I can be aware of it. And I’m like, oh, I feel horrible right now. Why? Because I’m going back into the narrative of us vs. them.
There’s never us vs. them. I don’t know how else to articulate that, but it’s I could I just see it everywhere. And it’s painstaking.
LAZOU: I think people see it as us versus them, but it’s really always been us versus the system.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Mhmm. been people.
The ideology, Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And I think that if you learn history, if you learn where the ideology comes from, then you can realize how it’s supplanted itself into other people, into you. And then, I think the word decolonize has lost its meaning. But like, that really is what decolonization really is.
It’s not getting rid of white people. It’s getting rid of the ideology that is inherent in a lot of white people. But is inherent in everybody to a certain degree. And how can we all come to an understanding of loving each other for who we are and not these colors and categories and classifications that we’ve used to decipher between who’s better
LAZOU: Yeah.
and I think people of
color, one of the things that we have to do is recognize just how much of that is in ourselves and our communities and try to work on that. I talked to another Mauritian on this podcast. She was of Indian descent. and I left Mauritius after high school, so I haven’t lived there as an adult, but she lived there as an adult, and she noticed that white supremacy is still very much a part of Mauritian culture, even though they’ve always been a minority.
And there’s barely any of them except tourists, but now there’s a growing community of expats. And if you go to a restaurant or a cafe, and then suddenly a white person comes in, they’re going to be served before you. like that. There’s a lot of little things that we do, maybe subconsciously that we don’t even think about, we should be thinking about,
you know?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: And the pendulum swings. The pendulum will swing, one way or the other. And, that’s such a good point because, like it takes someone Who sees that in you and then they also love you enough to articulate it in a way and you love them enough too and respect them enough for them to articulate it to in a way that makes you really reflect on that and really see it for yourself because you can’t, I really do firmly believe you cannot change anyone.
you absolutely cannot change anyone in this world. You can only motivate them to change themselves. And if you come in like, you need to, you did this, you need to change they’re way less likely to change. But if you’re like, hey, I saw you do this, and I was just wondering, like, where that came from.
Because for me, da da da da, in a non condescending, non egotistical, narcissistic way. Non intentional like, I wanna change you way. And then make it a discussion. And those are my favorite discussions, because They’re not only growing, you’re also growing, and you’re growing together.
LAZOU: Yeah. I think one of the biggest takeaways I’ve had from doing this podcast was one of the guests I had on, she said, I don’t even try to educate white people anymore. She said, that is the job for my white allies to do that because they have the respect in that circle. Because why am I gonna try to influence people who don’t respect me in the first place?
That’s a waste of my time. What I should be doing is try to influence people that already have influence over, like people in my own community. So,
Instead of me trying to go into some other community and telling them what they’re doing wrong
Ryan Alexander Holmes: yeah.
LAZOU: gonna work.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: It’s also not safe. I grew up in an environment that was like, the safest environment. But why did the D. A. R. E. officers bully me? Why did the officers like, pull guns on my brothers for skateboarding near our house? Why did an officer, and these are all white officers, that’s just, nothing against white people or officers, really.
It’s the system, remember. But why did an officer in front of my own house when I’m going through my gym bag, before basketball practice, pull up on me and my best friend and shout at us what’s in the bag? These aren’t coincidences. And so when someone says safe it’s not safe. Safe for who?
It wasn’t safe for me, there are multiple instances where me and my brothers could have died by the hands of the people who are supposed to protect us. So if that’s not irony, I don’t know what it is. If that’s not contradiction, I don’t know what it is. Safe is a completely, the definition varies.
Depending on who you are and what you look like in America. And there’s no debate about that because I’ve experienced it. also when you’re talking about your friend not trying to convince or change white people, For me, yes, that’s part of the pendulum that swung for me. I’m like, I’m not talking to white people and trying to change their minds.
And then it swung to, back to sort of towards a homeostasis of like, Oh, it’s a matter of priorities. I’m not going to prioritize white people because I did for so long. I’m just not going to prioritize them. And, when a white person says some crazy ass shit, it is not my job to convince them that what they said is harmful and crazy ass shit.
I’m just going to be like, wow, that’s crazy. You go ahead and you do whatever the fuck that is on your own. I’m not going to prioritize changing your mind or telling you that you’re wrong. How is that helping me? It’s not. And how is that going to help you? It’s probably not. So you just go your separate ways.
I don’t do this cause I don’t prioritize white people, but like sometimes it’s a matter of just talking about something that has nothing to do with the politics, nothing to do with race. You’re just connecting on basketball or something. And then they’re like, man, I kinda like this black guy. They won’t say that out loud, but you know, it’s a slow burn. It’s a slow process and that’s the approach and it doesn’t take anything out of you as a person of color. Do you know what I mean? It doesn’t take anything out of you because are you passionate about watching basketball and NBA and statistics?
I am, okay. This white person is, or this racist other person of color is, and we’re talking about that and that’s fine. It would be hateful of me to hear someone say that and then hate them because they weren’t born out the womb like I hate N words or I hate C words or I hate Chinese people, I hate black people, I hate Mexicans.
They weren’t born out the womb that way, right? They were conditioned that way. So for me to judge them and to say like, well, I hate you because you hate what you think I am is preposterous.
LAZOU: Yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: And it actually is also crazy. But people don’t want to think that they want to think that person’s crazy, but not if they hate that person.
They’re not crazy. Yes, you are. You’re crazy too.
LAZOU: We can never see our own crazy.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: exactly.
LAZOU: Yeah, I had another guest who taught in an evangelical school and he had some wild conversations with some of the students there, but. He did say that building relationships, like real relationships, where they feel safe to talk to you, tell all the racist stuff that they’ve been taught at home but really having discussions that are non judgmental and feeling like they’re being heard that’s what actually changes people’s mind, not giving them a bullet point list of why they’re wrong that
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah.
That never works.
LAZOU: each other as humans.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: that doesn’t work with people you love, you think that’s going to work with someone you don’t like. It’s just nonsensical actually at the end of the day,
LAZOU: Yeah.
Now switching gears a bit. I know you studied business at Berkeley and then you left that career and became an actor. Why acting? what does it feel like when you’re acting?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Because if I wasn’t happy, I wanted to be able to pretend and show that I was happy, even if I wasn’t. Nah, I’m just kidding. I wanted to feel something. To be honest I wanted to feel something. I’m a very sensitive human being. And there is There’s not much sensitivity in finance, you know, I mean, there, I mean, there is like people are shouting into phones about numbers that are not going to affect the world in any meaningful way.
But that’s not the sensitivity I’m talking about. I’m talking about, connecting with other people, not necessarily numbers and figures. And how is this going to affect the bottom line? I wanted to know how can I connect with another human and feel things that motivate me to want to make the world a better place if that makes sense. It sounds like, you know, fairy stuff. When I think about the world that I came from before. It’s like I couldn’t have these conversations. I couldn’t even talk like this. And that’s also the reason why like, it just blew up, and I had to go do it. Because it was starting to become almost like a pressure cooker.
I’m just like, why every time I bring something like this up and try to talk like this, my peers are like, dude, you on some like, tree fairy type Peter Pan shit, dude. I’m not trying to listen to that shit. Let’s go crush these fucking beers and, go to the club and then wake up an hour later and crunch these numbers and make money for the company and give each other high fives.
just never sat right with that culture. And, that’s what just motivated me to do it. I don’t know.
LAZOU: your family react when you told them you wanted to leave finance and become an actor?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: I kept telling him that I wanted to do that. Every summer, my family is very scholastic and serious. We’d go to like, a brunch place by Berkeley. My brother would fly in from the East Coast. My parents would drive up from L. A. to Berkeley. And then we’d stay in the Berkeley Marina Hotel for two nights.
But we’d wake up in the morning and we’d have to present what we were going to do for that summer. Like power, like PowerPoint presentation. And I always was like, okay, so last summer I made this amount of money from my internship and I saved it. And so this summer I want to go to the Lee Strasberg acting studio in Hollywood and I want to take this intensive and it’s three months and blah, blah, blah.
You get a certificate at the end.
LAZOU: Oh, nice
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Right? Mom and dad, like certificates and degrees are important, right? But they would always just be like, what? No, come on. You’re on this business track. So just do the business thing. And for me, I’m just like, like I’m a kid. I’m still in school and I’m like, okay, I guess that’s what I’m going to do.
I guess I won’t do this. And then it just became something that I had to do. And so I took classes, during the school year. At Berkeley, acting classes, I took an acting class there. I didn’t like it very much. And so I went to the Berkeley Repertory Theater, took classes there. And I was like, okay, I’m starting to get the hang of this.
I started reading a lot of plays, I started watching a lot of movies in a different way. I always loved all these things. But it became something that I started to obsess over. And so that when I graduated, I couldn’t live the lie anymore I moved to New York with no money at all. And I lived on my friend’s couches.
That’s where I really learned that I wanted to do this because I had no money and I was struggling and I was starving. And I’m like, I still want to do this. I know I would be making 80 K a year if I worked on wall street or if I did finance, but I know what that felt like. And time never moved slower, but struggling as this, not even an artist yet, just struggling as this.
Boy who wants to be an actor felt so much more fulfilling than the work that I was doing in finance before. So I’ve just been chasing that. And maybe I’m not chasing it. Maybe I’m just living it now. And I have to constantly remind myself like, no, you’re living it. And every day you are an artist, and every day you have to find the confidence in yourself to understand that and then share that with the world.
Even though the world is like, what the hell is an artist? We don’t need artists. , you know?
LAZOU: yeah, I can definitely relate to your story. So I started out an engineer. I did the whole thing. I graduated, I got a job, started working at a startup, got acquired, moved to Silicon Valley. I worked there for about five years and then it was this thing inside me that had been, since I was a kid, I always wanted to be a musician.
And I never ever considered doing it seriously. I always wanted to, I knew I wanted to, but I also knew that it couldn’t happen. It wasn’t for me. Cause, you know, don’t see people like me on the charts. at some point it was just like, This work is great, it pays great, and it’s not even a terrible job, like I don’t absolutely hate it, but something in me
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah,
LAZOU: then I left, I never looked back.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: I feel like that’s a lot of us. I think also, it’s all about, It’s all about making money and monetization and that sort of gets in the way sometimes of just creating like what you truly want to create deep within your soul. Cause even when the money’s good and I’m fine I’m still like, I need more money. And I’m like, no, I don’t. Like you were just so conditioned to constantly strive towards this monetary idea of what success is. And don’t get me wrong. Like I want to be not necessarily filthy rich, but comfortable. And for me it’s all about setting up a legacy and generational wealth.
Which, obviously is becoming harder with inflation and the income gap and the wealth disparities inherent in this stage capitalism that we’re living in America. But I realized that the people that changed my life the most have been artists and I think that’s everybody.
I don’t think that’s just artists. I think art changes everybody. Right? Like, very, very deeply it moves people. And where do people go after they finish their work? They go to the movie theater. They go to these art exhibits. They listen to music. That’s all art. Do you know what I’m saying? But yet we devalue artists.
LAZOU: yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Unless they’re like, making a gajillion dollars. And who changed my life the most? Acting teachers. My music teachers, my singing teachers. I used to tap dance, that had a profound impact on me, I used to play piano, that had a profound impact on me, because I felt like I was simultaneously giving something to the world and feeling like I was a part of the world.
LAZOU: Yeah. And I feel like, music, songs, lyrics books, movies have influenced how I think about things. They’ve challenged how I think about things. And that is how people change their minds.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying it’s really me. It’s an examined life. Once you start to realize who you are, then you start to realize you’re no different than anybody else. And then you can connect to anybody in the world. And that’s literally what art is. That’s why people vibe so hard to art because it’s a universal language in a lot of ways.
LAZOU: Yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: And that’s my story and I’m sticking to it, but I forget, I forget all the time. I forget all the time, and then it’s conversations like this that remind me,
LAZOU: yeah, it can be tough because we’re all conditioned to associate our value with our output, like monetary output. how much money are you making? That’s what your value is,
Ryan Alexander Holmes: What luxury brands are you wearing? What is your luxury car brand that you drive?
It’s meaningless. Yeah.
LAZOU: a lot of mixed race guests that I’ve talked to, especially people who are in entertainment, have struggled with not fitting into rigid categories. Like for example, some of them have been like I don’t fit on the Asian American whatever playlist or, stuff like that. Has that been an issue for you when you’re trying to get gigs either as a model or an actor, finding roles that.
You can apply for yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah, it’s interesting. I talked to my manager about this. And it’s just I just want to play human roles,
LAZOU: Yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: I think why people love to beef so much is because it wasn’t written like stereotypical Asian roles are, a lot of Asian representation.
Now I’m not gonna name projects and names. But a lot of it is like, It just doesn’t speak to me because it’s so stereotypical. It’s not even human or universal. It’s a product that is written a certain way because people outside of our community that are part of the system at the top are saying, this is what Asian people want.
And I can feel it. I can smell it. And I’m like, I don’t like this. But then a show like Beef comes along. or a movie like Past Lives comes along that’s so culturally accurate that it’s universal, right? It’s not pandering. And so for me, it’s okay, do I want to fit into the Asian American archetype anyway?
Do I want to fit into the black American archetype anyway? Actually, I don’t. So like, I’m actually not missing anything. And that’s flipping the conditioning on its head. It’s like, actually, I don’t want to be a part of that. As opposed to like, why am I not a part of that?
And is it hard to find roles? Yeah, because the majority of the industry is not thinking that way. But, I know that the role that I want is going to be the role that I want. Because I know what I want.
LAZOU: Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: and it’s going to be harder and I might have to write it myself.
But so be it. You know what I’m saying? It goes back to like, what’s the clarity of purpose? And this is very easy for me to say right now, but like, it’s hard. It’s very hard. I’m not going to deny that it’s hard as hell. And I don’t think it’s just because I’m mixed. I think it’s when you’re clear of what you want, it’s always going to be harder and it’s always going to take a longer time.
Because yes, I’ve turned down roles, I’ve turned down auditions, because I’m just like, I wouldn’t even do this if I got it. Regardless of the chances of me getting it I don’t want to do this, this goes against who I am and what I stand for and also I’m playing an archetype and a stereotype that if my goal is to create art that speaks to people and, moves the needle forward, making us all view each other as humans, then this is not helping.
And I do not judge people who decide this is something that’s going to give me an opportunity for the next one. So I can do that. I don’t judge people for that. I also will do that in differing degrees. But the moral of the story is like, why do you want to fit in a are you begging to fit in a box?
Why? Why?
LAZOU: Yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Do you know what I mean? Understand that it’s a box. Understand that okay, I’m auditioning for this, and they think that I’m the box, but I’m not, but this is going to give me another opportunity where I don’t have to be in the box.
LAZOU: Yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: I hope that makes sense. yeah.
LAZOU: that is a pretty tough place to be in, right? There’s this industry that has, it’s starting to get a little better, but most of the roles are very stereotypical up until now. And there’s not a lot of wiggle room when it comes to casting. They have pretty. Set ideas on who they think should play what role.
How do you stay motivated in an environment like that, when it things are playing against you.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: I create my own art. If I didn’t, I don’t know how I’d survive. It’s out of necessity, right? To express myself. Cause I’m looking at the industry and I’m like, I don’t really like the industry as a whole. And it it’s being run like a business more now than ever, and you see these huge conglomerate companies running these art houses like they’re businesses. You’re now seeing people be like, that sucks. That movie sucks. That TV show sucks. And they suck because they’re not actually speaking for humanity. They’re just trying to sell more toys. They’re trying to use IP that has already existed. And they’re putting like a script in there that is void of actual connection and humanity and love.
For me now the challenge is not just acting in a role that was written for me. It’s writing my own stuff lighting and designing and filming and doing the sound for my own stuff and then speaking from my heart and creating things that are gonna let people see themselves reflected in.
Because that’s the point of art. So yeah, it is, it’s so hard. But for me, I’m like, okay, what’s the solution? Cause I can’t just sit here and complain about the industry. Cause that’s not gonna solve anything. So what is the action? The action is to create. The action is to make your own art. Because you’re an artist.
You know, I’m an actor. And I, I hear other actors and all they do is talk shit about the industry, and I’m just like. Great. What are you doing though? I could sit here and talk shit about the industry all day, and I could have accomplished nothing but negativity and hate to this system that was not even designed to make us happy.
LAZOU: even make white people happy.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah, like, It makes no one happy. First of all, relying on something outside of yourself to make you happy is whatever it is, is not the goal, right? I’m starting to see no matter how hard it is and it’s hard.
I do not, I am not confident all the time. I am not clear in my goals all the time, but I do know my quintessential goal, which is make art that speaks to people. That is my goal. But I get lost. I get down. I get depressed. I get anxiety about the future. But, when I start to feel that way, it’s like, okay, then talk about it.
Put it in your art. And then I feel better. Or talk to someone like you, about what can we do? This is the system. What can we do?
LAZOU: Yeah. One thing that’s really cool is that you grew up speaking Mandarin and recently you had the opportunity to act in Apple TV’s The Morning Show and speak Mandarin in that episode.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah
LAZOU: That had to be a full circle moment for you.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: It was full circle, but I was so nervous that like I couldn’t even experience the full circle moment
LAZOU: You were nervous about what? I was nervous about everything. First of all, like the scene that I was in that was speaking Chinese was so hectic. There’s a hundred and fifty extras. They turned the Anaheim train station.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: They basically took Anaheim train station for a whole day. No trains in and out. They turned the whole station into Wuhan because that’s where we were. And they had 150 extras. There was people in hazmat suits and Chinese military suits people with luggage just running around trying to get out.
The scene is: we’re running through the, the train station and I’m speaking Chinese and then I have to carry this luggage and then I have to convince the uh, conductor to let us on. And I say that my mom is dying in Beijing and we have to get there.
Please let us on this train. And then we get on the train. But like as the actor, it’s like, okay, I can’t mess up my lines. Because there’s a whole train that’s moving. They have to reset a entire train. I’m just like, I don’t want to think about anything. I’m not thinking about what this means to me as a Chinese person and Chinese and Black person.
And I’m like, God, isn’t this amazing that I’m speaking Chinese? No, I’m just like, let me just get this shit please. So it don’t cost like hundreds of thousands of dollars in production, but yeah, watching it, I was like, this is actually surreal that my black and Chinese ass is up here speaking Chinese when no one sees me.
It’s actually something that I never thought that I’d be able to do. Never thought I’d be able to do or get the opportunity to do it. And yeah, in hindsight, I’m like, damn, I wish that was a longer experience.
LAZOU: Yeah.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Because even when I got the audition, I was like, who the hell else is going to do this?
LAZOU: Was there anybody else who auditioned for
Ryan Alexander Holmes: I want to see those audition takes because a lot of actors lie and say they have skills that they don’t. And I just want to see what actors out there said they spoke Chinese and they were just speaking gibberish.
LAZOU: Yeah, it’s funny.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah.
LAZOU: I haven’t seen that many movies or TV shows that have Mandarin in them, but I’ve seen a lot that have French in them
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Oh, is it bad?
LAZOU: A lot of them are pretty bad.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: I mean, there was, there was, uh, what was the show called? Moon Knight? What was that called? The Marvel show. And Ethan Hawke and this other like, extra were speaking Chinese. They both weren’t Chinese. But that was the worst. It was the worst Chinese I’ve ever heard in my life. I made a video about it and I don’t know about them, but like I had, and maybe they did too.
It’s a Marvel show. They had a speech coach cause I had a speech coach on set and my speech coach made me feel so good. Cause he’s just like, you did it. There’s this one tone on this word. But other than that, it was perfect. And I’m just like, Oh my god, thank you so much. But with this show that I watched, I was like, So that’s how it sounds when it’s really bad.
And they got roasted. They weren’t even, they said they were speaking Mandarin. And I was just like, I could not understand a single word. it almost gaslit me. I’m like, do I know Mandarin? Cause like, they said they were speaking Mandarin.
LAZOU: that is pretty funny. Yeah, I think I was watching some show. There was a scene that where the kids were in France and there was a message going over the loudspeakers in French saying, evacuation, you have to leave, but the person reading it had a very thick English accent in their French.
And I’m like
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah. Yeah.
LAZOU: it was pretty funny.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Exactly. So that’s Yeah.
LAZOU: Like, I’m pretty sure if they were evacuating Paris, they would have somebody who is natively fluent in French to say that.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah.
LAZOU: Yeah it’s funny.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah.
LAZOU: All right before I let you go, I have the final section, which is rapid fire questions. These are one word or one phrase you don’t have to explain, but you can if you want to.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Mhm.
LAZOU: What moviee or TV show made you want to become an actor?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: The first movie that came into my head was Good Will Hunting. Um. No, I’ll stick with that. I’ll stick with that. I miss Robin Williams very much.
LAZOU: I know you got shushed in class when you wanted to talk about Black historical figures. So I wanted to ask you, who’s an underrated Black historical figure that you wish more people knew about?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Malcolm X. People know about him, but they don’t know who he actually was and don’t know the actual history of what he accomplished for this country and doesn’t get credit for. And he’s painted as this villain and he never was.
LAZOU: what is a song that people would be surprised to find on your playlist
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Surprised. At one point, people would be surprised to see anime openings But not anymore, because I came out as Asian. I’m trying to think. Yeah, I listen to a lot of K pop. Look, this isn’t surprising anymore, but it would have been years ago.
LAZOU: What’s an Asian food that you should like but don’t?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: really like stinky tofu.
LAZOU: That’s fair.
and finally, what’s an Asian food you’ll never get tired of?
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Lu Rou Fan, which is like minced pork and rice. It’s very Taiwanese.
LAZOU: Awesome.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah.
LAZOU: Thank you so much for taking the time to do this today.
Ryan Alexander Holmes: Yeah. a pleasure chatting with you.
Yes, this was amazing. I feel very artistic, and driven, and motivated, and inspired. Thank you.
LAZOU: Thank you so much.
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