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GUEST BIO
Established in 2002, Charles Levan, C.E.O/Owner of Blue Buddha Entertainment, LLC specializes in sync placement for independent artists and labels, serving as a premier conduit for contemporary groundbreaking artists and repertoire. Past sync placements include: Shrinking, Found, All American, This Is Us, Supreme Models, & Grey’s Anatomy to name a few. With over 27 years of experience in the music industry, Charles’ passion in the sync space is coupled with a focus on artist development, helping artists hone their musical craft in an ever-changing entertainment world. Starting out at The Right Stuff/EMI-Capitol Records (North America), in the Marketing & Radio Promotions Department. Charles’ most notable work includes marketing Al Green’s platinum-selling Greatest Hits album and other high profile reissues. Charles balances his work life through an extreme passion for music, basketball, working out and mediation to stay spiritually grounded.
DEFINITIONS
- Wet behind the ears: Lacking experience/immature
- AAPI: Asian American Pacific Islander
- Sync: Synchronizing music to another medium such as video or even podcasts.
- Music supervisor: A music expert who typically offers music suggestions to be used in a scene, and is also responsible for clearing the licenses from all stakeholders for the song to be used.
MENTIONED
TAKEAWAYS
- Even in industries that are white dominated, there are some good mentors out there who can actually shield you from a lot of the discrimination. So make every effort you can to find those supporters who will use their privilege to back you when you need them to!
- When you have the opportunity to work with a mentor, showing up and developing that relationship makes it more rewarding for both parties. As someone who has been mentoring podcasters and music producer, I 100% agree with that.
- Because East Asians often have baby face, they are often assumed to be younger and less experienced than they actually are. So if you find yourself thinking an Asian colleague is likely too young or too inexperienced, it’s good to quickly check yourself and make sure you haven’t been fooled by the genes we stole from the fountain of youth.
- We’re not a monolith so our experiences vary widely. That’s expected and one does not invalidate the other. Charles, as an Asian American cisgendered man, has a different experience from Tonie (S1E3) who is non-binary, or Summer Swee-Singh (S2E6) who’s a woman, or Dani Saldo (S3E5) who is a disabled woman. We exist across a broad range of experiences.
For more music-related interviews, go here.
CONTACT
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Host: Lazou
Additional Music Links:
Nuances Podcast – curated Spotify | Apple Music playlists with past guests, hosts & more Asian diaspora artists.
SPONSOR
Featured song: “Blur the Lines” by LAZOU (unreleased)
Video with captions
Transcript
Lazou: Charles Levan, CEO and owner of Blue Buddha Entertainment LLC specializes in sync placement for independent artists and labels, serving as a premier conduit for contemporary groundbreaking artists and repertoire.
Past sync placements include Shrinking, Found, A ll American, This Is Us, and Grey’s Anatomy, just to name a few. With over 27 years of experience in the music industry, Charles’s passion in the sync space is coupled with a focus on helping artists hone their musical craft in an ever-changing entertainment world.
Starting out at The Right Stuff/EMI-Capitol Records in the marketing and radio promotions department, Charles’ most notable work includes marketing Al Green’s platinum selling greatest hits album and other high profile reissues. Charles balances his work life through an extreme passion for music, basketball, working out, and meditation to stay spiritually grounded.
Charles, thank you so much for doing this. Good morning.
Charles: So good to be on the show. Thank you.
Lazou: So let’s start with some background. Where’d you grow up and what was that like as an Asian American?
Charles: I am born and raised here in Southern California. Grew up on the west side in the eighties. There was a lot of diverse cultures here and shared experiences. A great sense of community.
My late father, he was in academia, he taught at U C L A. He always brought inclusivity community outreach and having a broad lens of learning through the world in our upbringing of my sister and I So it was a good experience growing up.
Lazou: That’s awesome.
So when did your interest in music start?
Charles: I played the piano in junior high school into high school. So I played for good four years. And from that I discovered, I had a great ear for music, my love of music. And then in high school and in college, I DJ’ed. So that was my foray really building on the foundation of piano lessons. My mom, she played a lot of classical music when I was a kid growing up. So that really grounded me in my love for music. And then from DJing.
In college, my folks were like, Hey, go into accounting. It’s a great career path. Math wise, it wasn’t my strong suit. So shortly into my curriculum pivoted and I found my way in marketing and from there, graduated and my first internship I was fortunate enough to have an opportunity to work at Capital Records and that really secured my place. It was 1994 and my boss at the time, he gave me that shot. So I think I was really fortunate in, being able to flourish in a great environment there.
Lazou: That’s awesome. How did your family react to you going into the music business?
Charles: Something that was great with my parents, especially my father, he was very supportive of any career path that I chose. And his mantra was, do what you’re best at. If that passion’s there, it’ll translate into everything you do.
Business wise, my folks were very happy that I stuck with marketing. Accounting wasn’t me, I’m creative. I knew it early on and, they were really supportive so that really helped. And having that first internship helped, I worked there from 93 to 2000at EMI and at the time, all the hits, there was Radiohead, blind Melon. It was a great time for music.
Lazou: Tell us a bit more about those early days. What was that like? You’re just graduated, you’re working at a really cool label with all those great artists. What was that like?
Charles: you know, Looking back and I still have a lot of the photos and memorabilia and it was a great time in the industry. So many talented bands. I lived on the west side, so commuting to Hollywood and Vine, working right there at the Capitol Tower. The history, Nat King Cole, Frank Sinatra, Beastie Boys. Little did we know that it was such a prolific time with so many great artists.
Being Asian American in the music industry, I worked for a subdivision of Capital called The Right S tuff. We were our own label and at the time, if you were Asian American, most of the time you were either in finance or accounting.
So I was the minority carving away in the creative aspect. But I think the music industry, irrespective of race, color, creed, it’s all about the music. Everyone coalesces and supports each other. The community outreach and collaborative community aspect is why so many of us still find that path. If you find that group of supporters you really foster that.
Lazou: Have you ever felt like your ethnicity affected how people interacted with you in the industry?
Charles: I think I was the exception to the rule and also at the time, the period was U2’s Joshua Tree. So I’m like, I wanna be like Bono. So I had long hair, I was creative. I stood out in a cool, creative way. So I think, that on top of being able to demonstrate and have the skillset help me flourish. So to answer your question, no, it wasn’t really an issue. I think what did hinder me in an interesting way is because, being Asian American, I had the baby face. I looked so young at the time, so people were like, ah, who’s this young buck? He’s wet behind his ears. But once you find your way, having great mentors, my boss Tom Cartwright at the time, he was so supportive in everything I did. So I think that really helped.
Lazou: Yeah, definitely having people who advocate for you is
great.
I saw on your LinkedIn that you speak English, Japanese, and Vietnamese. How did you come to learn those languages?
Charles: Japanese is something recent. About four years ago, I wanted to learn another language. I had visited Japan, so took some classes and got pretty far. It does help in business, I’m by no means completely fluent in Japanese. As far as Vietnamese, growing up as a child, my parents would speak to me in both English and Vietnamese.
It’s still something I strive to be better at, but the through line is: learning a new language to me, I hear the musicality in it, so that’s what I love about picking up words in Farsi or Italian and just it’s great for the minds and brain and obviously when we travel to a foreign country, being able to speak the local language, that’s where that passion comes from.
Lazou: Yeah. We actually had an episode where we interviewed somebody who does brain research on bilinguals, and she shared that when you’re learning a new language, it develops your brain in a certain way, like parts of your brain that deal with language actually improve. And then if you’re bilingual, you tend to do better at certain tasks that are not related to language at all, like creative solutions. so that’s pretty cool.
Charles: Yeah, I totally concur.
Lazou: Yeah. you mentioned that you didn’t have any problems with the industry. And I was wondering if you’ve come across other colleagues who speak multiple languages, but maybe English is not their first language and whether you notice that they were treated differently.
’cause I have some listeners who are in the music industry, on the industry side, very passionate, very creative people, but they have an accent. And. It seems like it’s really hard for people to see past that and again, there assumed to be in the finance department or stuff like that. So I was wondering if you’ve seen that for other colleagues
Charles: I think maybe at Capital it was sort of that family vibe at the time during the nineties, and I didn’t see it that much. But I think, my bit of advice, for those working through that is, letting your work shine and that sort of speaks for your capabilities and confidence. I think it’s a lost art with social media and those types of things. But when having a conversation with someone and face-to-face and, seeing someone eye to eye and then things break down in the, in a good way, so to speak. People look past those things and the music industry, to me, I think, Years back, deals were made.
There’s the music, you sit down you break bread, so to speak. And our word is our bond. So once you have that door open for you, and if you can prove yourself and deliver, then you know that is worth a million dollars. People continue to come back to you for your skillset.
Lazou: I think in their case what happened was they delivered and then people took credit for their work and then they just. It did not, go the way they thought it was gonna go. Yeah. So, the accent combined with Asians being stereotyped. I was shocked when I heard some of those stories. I’m like, wow, cause I don’t have much of an accent anymore. so I think people treat me like I’m an American but I think for people who don’t have that American accent, it can be a lot harder. And then it becomes, do they assimilates or do they try to keep their identity and, try to do it their own way.
Charles: Yeah. Yeah.
Lazou: So you’re now the c e o of your own company, blue Buddha Entertainment. Why was entrepreneurship the right choice for you? And then is there a cool story behind that name?
Charles: I’ll answer the second part first. At the time in 2002 when the company was formed with two other business partners, we were brainstorming various names. And Blue Buddha actually came from a lyric from a song, a band called My Life With Thrill Kill Kult and Blue Buddha we’re like, Hey, that really sticks.
That’s cool. And from that, the artwork coalesced of smiling, happy Buddha with headphones. And our, skillset was to deliver great music for sync industry. It just so happened, you know, growing up, my mom was spiritual, in Buddhism. It connected with what we were doing working with independent artists. So that’s how that name came about. And then your first question again was
Lazou: Why was entrepreneurship the right thing for you? Why did you not go to some other company, for example, or get a promotion and stay there?
Charles: Yeah. So having worked at capital for about nine years and then inevitably in 2001, I was laid off. So position went away and my friend who brought me in we formed Blue Buddha. It made a great fit for me to pursue that route. So I had two other business partners, one of which he had his own company.
So I found it a great opportunity to continue to grow. And it’s one of those things, you work for a firm, you give your life to them, so to speak, and then you’re laid off and then you sort of disillusioned. And I was young enough to be able to say, Hey, let’s give this a shot.
What also helped is when I was at Capital halfway through, I did go back to CSUN for my master’s program. Being able to apply real world experience in the classroom setting helped pave the way of becoming a business owner. cause over about two, three years, the other two business partners went on to other endeavors and I’ve been running Blue Buddha ever since. So I think planetary alignment with a lot of luck and hard work. At the end of the day,
Lazou: Yeah. So as a sync agent, have you seen any trends when it comes to Asian American representation in the sync industry? I.
Charles: Definitely more opportunities. We had trends, not trends, but opportunities like the K-pop scene media, films, crazy Rich Asians and basically films and shows that need authentic music in that given landscape. Back in May we had a panel on a a P I and that was one of the things that we talked about. If you’re a A A P I artist leaning into one’s culture and storytelling for authentic songs, because TV shows and films and media, invariably they need authentic music that speaks to the narrative that’s playing on screen.
So it’s a great time for independent A A P I artists, and that was an opportunity for Blue Buddha to continue to build our library, working with artists like Ruby Ibarra, Ella Jay Basco. As a sync agent, we need music across the board. All genres, a good song is a good song, but obviously opportunities present itself culturally. So I think it was a great fit.
Lazou: I guess what you’re saying is that right now is a moment where leaning into the cultural identity is what’s trending for A A P I artists, right? Am I understanding you correctly?
Charles: Correct, correct. And I think it will continue to grow because I think it was Francesca Harding from KCRW when we were talking about the same topic. Years back when Danny Boyle produced Slum Dog Millionaire, then, Bollywood or authentic songs from India, but now I think, post pandemic with streaming, there’s so much independent films and feature films that are created. So the opportunities are limitless as far as, whether it’s by POC, AAPI, LGBT Q the storytelling and the storytellers need the authentic music to match. So that’s, what excites me every day on those opportunities.
Lazou: I think that’s something that many artists struggle with too is when it comes to being Asian American, there’s still that American part that sometimes gets ignored a little bit. Like you have to lean into the Asian to be seen as Asian American. A lot of us also want to make music, not just about identity, but about just being a person living in the world, you know,
Charles: Yeah.
Lazou: actually we talked about this on the episode with Cherie Hu, it’s like, we are in the crazy rich Asian moment of music where it has to be super Asian.
Charles: Good point. Yeah, that’s interesting because I’m gonna name a couple bands that came out in the nineties when I was at Capital. One was Shonen Knife from Japan, if I’m not mistaken. And then there was another band, Pizzicato Five, they were signed a Madonna’s label and they really leaned in. Same with what they wore, their dress and the sound was distinctly Asian. But interestingly they were big not necessarily globally, but geographically in certain markets. Like you said it’s very far it’s not complete crossover.
Lazou: Yeah, so your company pays special attention to artist development. Can you give a specific example of how you bring all those elements together? Maybe one project that you’re particularly proud of, how that all came together?
Charles: Absolutely. So one approach that we do is, at least on our Instagram reels every week giving a platform to our independent artists. Taking their artwork, their bio, their music and putting it out there and packaging so that it looks like a record label ‘ cause I think that’s important. So whether it’s their fans or music supervisors or decision makers who follow us, it’s just another touch point. That attention to detail is something we do. All our marketing, anything forward facing to our studios and producers, we make sure everything’s packaged the right way cause a music supervisor has thousands of pieces of music he can listen to. So we wanna make sure that when they look at a blue budda artist there’s something there. It’s an aha moment. cause what excites me and the team, the common thread, is help an independent artist- I’ve worked with many over the years. They get a placement and then they go on to bigger things.
And to know that we were part of that team there’s no bigger joy.
Lazou: That’s awesome.
So when did A A P I representation become something that was on your mind and that you sought out in your professional environment?
Charles: Coming out of the pandemic was an opportunity to look at our catalog and see opportunities in the marketplace. Productions ,TV shows that we saw coming through. And then also we would get more calls for specific music so within those two years when we weren’t sure what was happening in the world coming out of that we had those opportunities to find more music in that specific lane.
Lazou: Yeah.
What advice do you have for AAPI artists starting out in the music industry today?
Charles: The number one, I would say Lazou is one’s community. Mentorship programs, mentees. We have a lot of links on our website that talks about programs with some of the artists we work with. We had executives from Netflix and Universal Pictures and things that they do. So that’s an important component. Knowing that there’s a community behind you, you’re not alone in the process. One great nugget that came from Rudy Chung from Netflix is, when you do have an opportunity to work with a mentor is, be there all in. It’s a rewarding experience for both a mentor and a mentee. Fostering that relationship.
And once you have that community, keep those relationships, collaborate over the years. Here in Los Angeles, we meet a lot of people and then the connection falls apart because time and distance. But yes, most definitely. Yeah.
Traffic. What’s different from the nineties to say today, and I think I’m taking this from a Seinfeld episode, pre-digital devices and cell phones, if we made an appointment to see a friend at a restaurant, you had to show up.
You couldn’t just texted at the last minute, something happened. I’m not gonna be there. It’s easy in Los Angeles to get caught up and falling through on commitments. ’cause it’s tough as it is in LA to find meaningful connections with colleagues and friends.
But being there for our friends and colleagues and musicians and when there are mixers, face time, the more people we meet. So my big piece of advice, find that community and collaborate and keep the connections,
Lazou: Yeah. I’m assuming it’s very similar, but for those who are interested in being on the business side of music, what’s your advice other than what you just said?
Charles: When I came up, it was the old model of, you had to go to school, you had to have a degree. Nowadays there’s so many resources out there and that could be a blessing and in disguise. Folks can say well, I’ve learned this on YouTube, I found this information, YouTube could be one avenue but going to school, supplementing having different viewpoints of what you’re learning and making sure who you’re learning from your mentors, what’s their path? Because if, if you follow someone down a path and they don’t have the credentials, back it up, that’s not gonna bode out well.
So it’s doing your homework. Biggest thing, classroom textbook knowledge. It’s the application of that is what’s so important. ‘ and above all, being patient, things take time. the industry Up and down right now, we’re going through a lot of drastic changes, external forces that are happening things we can’t control.
So things we can control if we’re a musician, hone your craft, write great songs, and then find people you wanna work with. Build your team.
Lazou: Yeah. This wasn’t in the question, but since we’re talking about changes what are your thoughts on AI ? Are you worried that it’ll eat up into sync opportunities for indie artists? If the AI gets decent enough to a point where it probably won’t be great music, but it might be decent enough music that low budget productions might be like, you know what, we are just gonna use ai.
It doesn’t matter what
Charles: There, there might be those instances, but I think, for those productions that wanna maintain a high level of quality they’ll always go back, to the tried and true indie band because otherwise if they follow that route, we’re gonna pay attention more to the song than the scene and say, oh, why was that scene so bad? Oh, it was the music.
What’s your viewpoint on ai, if I could ask you that?
Lazou: In terms of music, I have played around with ChatGPT actually We had a brief and we’re like, let’s ask ChatGPT to write something.
And of course it came out, a pretty crappy song. But we’re like, This idea and that idea. We could use that, we could use that word, we could use that word. And that got us started on the song. So I definitely see myself using AI in that way where it’s not meant to replace me, but more a way to generate more ideas faster.
The rhyme schemes are usually horrible. They’re just horrible. So corny. Sometimes you get a couple of words there that you’re like, oh, okay, yeah, I could use that. so definitely use it. I don’t see it replacing creative stuff just yet, but I definitely see it as something I can use to generate more ideas fast.
When it comes to, how the industry’s gonna use it, I think capitalism dictates that if they can, they will.
Charles: Yes.
Lazou: Don’t know when that’s gonna happen, but it probably will happen at some point. There’s a lot of tools out there that are really helpful and I use every day, like the editing software, I use lots of AI in it. Saves me a lot of time. I do a lot of editing on my podcast. But yeah, I think it is coming. big changes are definitely coming.
Charles: Yeah. It’s a good, it’s a thread of everything that’s happening between corporate America and writers, actors, working class actors who years back with the residuals that can make a living, but now with inflation prices in Los Angeles for rent, everything.
And they’re just saying, Hey, you know, a fair decision has to be reached there. So if they’re making millions, if not billions of trillions of dollars for the work they created.
Lazou: but they’re not seeing it.
Charles: yeah, a hundred percent it’s
Lazou: And I think there’s a lot of ethical dilemmas with AI because I don’t know if you know this, but Spotify is working on AI for generating podcasts, right? So they can train a model on a particular host and then read ads in that host’s voice without the host ever having to read the ad.
And that’s a huge problem because. I think there’s research that shows that if people listen to your podcast and they listen to you speak for more than seven hours, they trust you as a person because it’s a very intimate medium, right? You hear the person’s voice like you’re just right there.
So then you have this ethical dilemma of Is that something that you should be able to do where you’re putting words in somebody’s mouth that they never said, even if they agreed for that model to be trained, you’re consciously duping people, even if they know that it might not have been that person reading it, it’s still their voice.
Like psychologically, you’re manipulating people.
Charles: yeah,
Lazou: then of course on the other side, they’re like all marketing is manipulating people. It’s like, yeah, but that’s a whole other level. That’s not the same thing. So there’s a lot of ethical dilemmas about AI and a lot of things that I’m like, I really hope they don’t do that.
There’s a lot of regulation that needs to catch up.
Charles: Yeah.
Lazou: definitely a lot of stuff there that people are rightfully freaked out about.
Charles: Yeah, a hundred percent. It goes back to what you said, it’s all about the capital, profit margin, sadly.
Lazou: For sure. Is there anything that’s still on your bucket list when it comes to your career?
Charles: We’re in the process of launching a sync and songwriting online course, a masterclass that we’ll teach live. With my skillset of working with independent artist, hosting panels, we have our podcasts. It’s a coalescing of everything. And so I’m really excited about it because it’s still a lot of mysteries and questions about sync. What better way to learn and have fun as an artist?
Lazou: Alright, we like to close the interview with our rapid fire section. These are one word or one phrase answers you can explain, but you don’t have to.
Charles: Okay,
Lazou: What’s an Asian food that you should like, but don’t?
Charles: should like, but don’t, oh, that’s a good one. ’cause actually I think there.
Lazou: You like ’em all?
Charles: I like ’em all, whether so I’m a Vietnamese American descent but Filipino food. Chinese food, Vietnamese food. Korean food. And that’s I think just my openness, trying everything. So I’ll have to come back on that one.
Lazou: All right. Hopefully the next question will be a little easier. What’s an Asian food that you’ll never get tired of?
Charles: Definitely pho, the Vietnamese pho
Lazou: What’s your proudest achievement in music?
Charles: I would say, having worked with the team back at E M I with Al Green launching his greatest hits, the reissue records, and went platinum meeting him. Back in the day, and he was performing live at the House of Blues. So that was early on in my career.
And I’ll always remember that
Lazou: Awesome. What was the last song you had on repeat?
Charles: last song on repeat was, I would actually say it was one of U2’s Sunday, bloody Sunday, when he reworked it as part of his surrender record is like an acoustic mix.
Lazou: And last one. What’s your favorite Al Green song?
Charles: Love and happiness. Yeah. I didn’t have to pause on that. It’s that the opening hook is falsetto and then when the uh, drum section kicks in and I wanna even say, I think Karen Rackman, the music supervisor at the time for Quentin Tarantino’s, pulp Fiction if I remember correctly they sync love happiness in the scene there. And I think that bookends, my passion for music and the visual media, ‘ cause when you marry music to picture, it creates another higher piece of art that we all remember both visually and orally. And it sticks with us. You see the scene, you hear the music, and we’re lucky, you know, there’s so many talented artists on the film, production, music side,
Lazou: Yeah. Well, thank you so much. for doing this.
Charles: Thank you. Appreciate you. It was great to be on the show and great chatting.
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